From owner-cse584-sp07-list@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU Thu Mar 8 00:55:26 2007 Received: from ares.cse.buffalo.edu (ares.cse.Buffalo.EDU [128.205.32.79]) by castor.cse.Buffalo.EDU (8.13.6/8.12.10) with ESMTP id l285tQIZ004132 for ; Thu, 8 Mar 2007 00:55:26 -0500 (EST) Received: from front2.acsu.buffalo.edu (warmfront.acsu.buffalo.edu [128.205.6.88]) by ares.cse.buffalo.edu (8.13.6/8.13.6) with SMTP id l285tNSs031564 for ; Thu, 8 Mar 2007 00:55:23 -0500 (EST) Received: (qmail 17298 invoked from network); 8 Mar 2007 05:55:23 -0000 Received: from mailscan5.acsu.buffalo.edu (128.205.6.137) by front2.acsu.buffalo.edu with SMTP; 8 Mar 2007 05:55:23 -0000 Received: (qmail 15114 invoked from network); 8 Mar 2007 05:55:23 -0000 Received: from deliverance.acsu.buffalo.edu (128.205.7.57) by front1.acsu.buffalo.edu with SMTP; 8 Mar 2007 05:55:23 -0000 Received: (qmail 1113 invoked from network); 8 Mar 2007 05:55:22 -0000 Received: from listserv.buffalo.edu (128.205.7.35) by deliverance.acsu.buffalo.edu with SMTP; 8 Mar 2007 05:55:22 -0000 Received: by LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU (LISTSERV-TCP/IP release 14.5) with spool id 3692504 for CSE584-SP07-LIST@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU; Thu, 8 Mar 2007 00:55:22 -0500 Delivered-To: CSE584-SP07-LIST@listserv.buffalo.edu Received: (qmail 7873 invoked from network); 8 Mar 2007 05:45:19 -0000 Received: from mailscan7.acsu.buffalo.edu (128.205.6.158) by listserv.buffalo.edu with SMTP; 8 Mar 2007 05:45:19 -0000 Received: (qmail 3090 invoked from network); 8 Mar 2007 05:45:19 -0000 Received: from nf-out-0910.google.com (64.233.182.188) by smtp2.acsu.buffalo.edu with SMTP; 8 Mar 2007 05:45:19 -0000 Received: by nf-out-0910.google.com with SMTP id k27so464732nfc for ; Wed, 07 Mar 2007 21:45:17 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.78.165.16 with SMTP id n16mr4681hue.1173332717636; Wed, 07 Mar 2007 21:45:17 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.78.175.4 with HTTP; Wed, 7 Mar 2007 21:45:17 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline References: <200703080330.l283UFCa001677@castor.cse.Buffalo.EDU> X-Google-Sender-Auth: c92c78202b5da364 X-UB-Relay: (nf-out-0910.google.com) X-PM-Spam-Prob: : 7% Message-ID: Date: Thu, 8 Mar 2007 00:45:17 -0500 Reply-To: "Jonathan P. Bona" Sender: "Philosophy of Computer Science, Spring 2007" From: "Jonathan P. Bona" Subject: Re: WIKIPEDIA To: CSE584-SP07-LIST@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU In-Reply-To: <200703080330.l283UFCa001677@castor.cse.Buffalo.EDU> Precedence: list List-Help: , List-Unsubscribe: List-Subscribe: List-Owner: List-Archive: X-UB-Relay: (nf-out-0910.google.com) X-DCC-INFN-TO-Metrics: ares.cse.buffalo.edu 1233; Body=0 Fuz1=0 Fuz2=0 X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.0 required=5.0 tests=AWL,BAYES_00 autolearn=ham version=3.1.7 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.1.7 (2006-10-05) on ares.cse.buffalo.edu X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.88.6/2774/Wed Mar 7 19:57:23 2007 on ares.cse.buffalo.edu X-Virus-Status: Clean X-DCC-Buffalo.EDU-Metrics: castor.cse.Buffalo.EDU 1029; Body=0 Fuz1=0 Fuz2=0 Status: R Content-Length: 2062 On 3/7/07, William J. Rapaport wrote: > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Subject: WIKIPEDIA > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ snip > > 2. Anyone can change any article at any time, so your citing an article > *now* doesn't mean that your reader will necessarily be able to find it > *later* to check it (or that what they find will be what you cited). > Note that this is independent of point 1, which concerns the possible > unreliability of the authors; point 2 concerns the dynamic nature of the > resource--only static resources should be cited, so that everyone knows > that they are referring to the same thing and not a changing target. There *is* a decent way to work around problem #2: you can link to a specific version of any article. For instance, here is a link to the Wikipedia article on "Philosophy": http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Philosophy Just about anyone who wants to can edit this page. If I wanted to, I could add the assertion that Socrates ate grilled cheese for lunch every day. Someone would probably remove it quickly, but during the time between my adding it and their removing it, that would be the official Wikipedia story on Socrates. Contrast that link with this one: http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Philosophy&oldid=113498091 As it says near the top of this page, this is the Revision as of 04:14, 8 March 2007. What the page looked like when someone made a change to it at 4:14 on March 8 is not something that changes. Wikipedia keeps track of that, and allows you to link directly to specific version. To do that, go to the page and click on the "history" tab. You will see a list of the most recent revisions made to the page. You can view a specific version by clicking on its date and time. Problem #1 is serious enough on its own to make citing wikipedia in any serious work a bad idea. It's worth noting however that wikipedia often has links to sources that *are* citable. -- Jon From owner-cse584-sp07-list@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU Thu Mar 8 09:07:28 2007 Received: from ares.cse.buffalo.edu (ares.cse.Buffalo.EDU [128.205.32.79]) by castor.cse.Buffalo.EDU (8.13.6/8.12.10) with ESMTP id l28E7Ruf013622 for ; Thu, 8 Mar 2007 09:07:27 -0500 (EST) Received: from front2.acsu.buffalo.edu (warmfront.acsu.buffalo.edu [128.205.6.88]) by ares.cse.buffalo.edu (8.13.6/8.13.6) with SMTP id l28E7PJD000301 for ; Thu, 8 Mar 2007 09:07:25 -0500 (EST) Received: (qmail 6208 invoked from network); 8 Mar 2007 14:07:25 -0000 Received: from mailscan3.acsu.buffalo.edu (128.205.6.135) by front2.acsu.buffalo.edu with SMTP; 8 Mar 2007 14:07:25 -0000 Received: (qmail 6193 invoked from network); 8 Mar 2007 14:07:24 -0000 Received: from defer.acsu.buffalo.edu (128.205.7.58) by front2.acsu.buffalo.edu with SMTP; 8 Mar 2007 14:07:24 -0000 Received: (qmail 4641 invoked from network); 8 Mar 2007 14:07:15 -0000 Received: from listserv.buffalo.edu (128.205.7.35) by defer.acsu.buffalo.edu with SMTP; 8 Mar 2007 14:07:15 -0000 Received: by LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU (LISTSERV-TCP/IP release 14.5) with spool id 3698833 for CSE584-SP07-LIST@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU; Thu, 8 Mar 2007 09:07:15 -0500 Delivered-To: CSE584-SP07-LIST@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU Received: (qmail 20669 invoked from network); 8 Mar 2007 14:07:12 -0000 Received: from mailscan7.acsu.buffalo.edu (128.205.6.158) by listserv.buffalo.edu with SMTP; 8 Mar 2007 14:07:12 -0000 Received: (qmail 20440 invoked from network); 8 Mar 2007 14:07:12 -0000 Received: from castor.cse.buffalo.edu (128.205.32.14) by smtp1.acsu.buffalo.edu with SMTP; 8 Mar 2007 14:07:12 -0000 Received: from castor.cse.Buffalo.EDU (rapaport@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by castor.cse.Buffalo.EDU (8.13.6/8.12.10) with ESMTP id l28E7B04013615 for ; Thu, 8 Mar 2007 09:07:11 -0500 (EST) Received: (from rapaport@localhost) by castor.cse.Buffalo.EDU (8.13.6/8.12.9/Submit) id l28E7BTJ013614 for CSE584-SP07-LIST@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU; Thu, 8 Mar 2007 09:07:11 -0500 (EST) X-UB-Relay: (castor.cse.buffalo.edu) X-PM-EL-Spam-Prob: : 7% Message-ID: <200703081407.l28E7BTJ013614@castor.cse.Buffalo.EDU> Date: Thu, 8 Mar 2007 09:07:11 -0500 Reply-To: "William J. Rapaport" Sender: "Philosophy of Computer Science, Spring 2007" From: "William J. Rapaport" Subject: Re: WIKIPEDIA To: CSE584-SP07-LIST@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU Precedence: list List-Help: , List-Unsubscribe: List-Subscribe: List-Owner: List-Archive: X-UB-Relay: (castor.cse.buffalo.edu) X-DCC-Buffalo.EDU-Metrics: castor.cse.Buffalo.EDU 1029; Body=0 Fuz1=0 Fuz2=0 X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.5 required=5.0 tests=AWL,BAYES_00 autolearn=ham version=3.1.7 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.1.7 (2006-10-05) on ares.cse.buffalo.edu X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.88.6/2774/Wed Mar 7 19:57:23 2007 on ares.cse.buffalo.edu X-Virus-Status: Clean Status: R Content-Length: 1233 ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Subject: Re: WIKIPEDIA ------------------------------------------------------------------------ "Jonathan P. Bona" writes: | | There *is* a decent way to work around problem #2: you can link to a | specific version of any article. That's useful, but (a) difficult to use from your lengthy description of it--e.g., is there an easy link on a Wikipedia entry that points you to such an "archival" citation link? The Stanford Encyclopedia of Philosophy, which is a much more authoritative, yet dynamic, web encyclopedia, has such a link prominently displayed on each page--and (b) I suspect that most people, certainly *all* students who have cited Wikipedia in papers they've turned in to me, either don't know about this or ignore it. | It's worth noting however that wikipedia | often has links to sources that *are* citable. Yes, this can be useful. Note that I didn't say that Wikipedia isn't useful. In fact, I've often found, much to my pleasant surprise, that most articles on Wikipedia are pretty good. But being useful and having useful external links doesn't make it *citable*, which was the point I wanted to bring out. From owner-cse584-sp07-list@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU Thu Mar 8 15:18:11 2007 Received: from ares.cse.buffalo.edu (ares.cse.Buffalo.EDU [128.205.32.79]) by castor.cse.Buffalo.EDU (8.13.6/8.12.10) with ESMTP id l28KIBxL028593 for ; Thu, 8 Mar 2007 15:18:11 -0500 (EST) Received: from front2.acsu.buffalo.edu (warmfront.acsu.buffalo.edu [128.205.6.88]) by ares.cse.buffalo.edu (8.13.6/8.13.6) with SMTP id l28KI7OP038102 for ; Thu, 8 Mar 2007 15:18:07 -0500 (EST) Received: (qmail 25085 invoked from network); 8 Mar 2007 20:18:07 -0000 Received: from mailscan8.acsu.buffalo.edu (128.205.7.55) by front2.acsu.buffalo.edu with SMTP; 8 Mar 2007 20:18:07 -0000 Received: (qmail 24801 invoked from network); 8 Mar 2007 20:18:06 -0000 Received: from deliverance.acsu.buffalo.edu (128.205.7.57) by front2.acsu.buffalo.edu with SMTP; 8 Mar 2007 20:18:06 -0000 Received: (qmail 25865 invoked from network); 8 Mar 2007 20:17:58 -0000 Received: from listserv.buffalo.edu (128.205.7.35) by deliverance.acsu.buffalo.edu with SMTP; 8 Mar 2007 20:17:58 -0000 Received: by LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU (LISTSERV-TCP/IP release 14.5) with spool id 3711194 for CSE584-SP07-LIST@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU; Thu, 8 Mar 2007 15:17:58 -0500 Delivered-To: cse584-sp07-list@listserv.buffalo.edu Received: (qmail 19230 invoked from network); 8 Mar 2007 20:17:58 -0000 Received: from mailscan7.acsu.buffalo.edu (128.205.6.158) by listserv.buffalo.edu with SMTP; 8 Mar 2007 20:17:58 -0000 Received: (qmail 5870 invoked from network); 8 Mar 2007 20:17:56 -0000 Received: from castor.cse.buffalo.edu (128.205.32.14) by smtp3.acsu.buffalo.edu with SMTP; 8 Mar 2007 20:17:56 -0000 Received: from castor.cse.Buffalo.EDU (rapaport@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by castor.cse.Buffalo.EDU (8.13.6/8.12.10) with ESMTP id l28KHuCD028579 for ; Thu, 8 Mar 2007 15:17:56 -0500 (EST) Received: (from rapaport@localhost) by castor.cse.Buffalo.EDU (8.13.6/8.12.9/Submit) id l28KHujk028578 for cse584-sp07-list@listserv.buffalo.edu; Thu, 8 Mar 2007 15:17:56 -0500 (EST) X-UB-Relay: (castor.cse.buffalo.edu) X-PM-EL-Spam-Prob: : 7% Message-ID: <200703082017.l28KHujk028578@castor.cse.Buffalo.EDU> Date: Thu, 8 Mar 2007 15:17:56 -0500 Reply-To: "William J. Rapaport" Sender: "Philosophy of Computer Science, Spring 2007" From: "William J. Rapaport" Subject: WIKIPEDIA To: CSE584-SP07-LIST@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU Precedence: list List-Help: , List-Unsubscribe: List-Subscribe: List-Owner: List-Archive: X-UB-Relay: (castor.cse.buffalo.edu) X-DCC-Buffalo.EDU-Metrics: castor.cse.Buffalo.EDU 1029; Body=0 Fuz1=0 Fuz2=0 X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.5 required=5.0 tests=AWL,BAYES_00 autolearn=ham version=3.1.7 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.1.7 (2006-10-05) on ares.cse.buffalo.edu X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.88.6/2780/Thu Mar 8 13:30:21 2007 on ares.cse.buffalo.edu X-Virus-Status: Clean Status: R Content-Length: 853 ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Subject: WIKIPEDIA ------------------------------------------------------------------------ | Date: Wed, 7 Mar 2007 23:53:02 -0500 | From: "Michael W Kandefer" | | Decent Wikipedia articles will have external references that are both static | and are written by identified authors. Wikipedia can offer an intro to some | subject matter and a means of acquiring better sources for information. I | haven't cited Wikipedia in formal arguments, but have in informal settings ( | e.g. internet forums/debates). Though, I'll usually check out the references | first, and look for a better source, if available. | | Mike Thanks Mike. As I've said, *using* Wikipedia is fine (as long as you take what it says with a grain of salt); citing it is usually not.